News & Views
Poppy problem
Why I refuse to wear a poppy on Remembrance Day
Last Tuesday, just seconds before going on air to do a news opinion spot, I was handed a poppy to wear so I could mark Remembrance Day. On instinct, I declined.
I had only seconds to make that choice and after the taping was done, agonized over my decision. Listening to the stories all over the radio about the sacrifices made by men and women who went to war, I had a flash of guilt. How could I have refused to honour these brave soldiers? What was I thinking?
I tried to retrace my process. I feel real sorrow for the thousands of men – mostly boys, really – who were thrown into those stinking world war one trenches. If they returned at all, they were never the same, wholly traumatized by their brutal war experience. Speaking as a Jewish woman, I'm grateful that Hitler was defeated in World War II. But there's something about Remembrance Day ceremonies that disturb me.
They seem to be only about one thing – celebrating the soldiers. They don't question the horror or war and the military machinery that throws helpless young men into the fray. Our World War II soldiers were conscripted – they had no choice but to fight – and the young men who made the so-called ultimate sacrifice had no control over whether they would go and where they would do battle.
If the intention of Remembrance Day is to salute soldiers for their efforts, and acknowledge their pain, then why not talk about war, what gets us into wars, who benefits, which economic interests thrive on war? We hear nothing of that, to the point where all the coverage of last Tuesdays ceremonies read more like propaganda than a proper salute.
And what about what happens to women as a result of war. Thirty years ago I participated in a Remembrance Day demonstration outside City Hall just after the official ceremonies. Members of Women Against Violence Against Women erected a home-made cenotaph that carried the words For Every Woman Raped In Every War.
It didn't go over well, which was no surprise. Who wants to hear about these kinds of female war-time casualties? And besides, to mention rape is to suggest that soldiers – even some of our soliders – might be implicated.
To be fair, CBC Radio ran an item featuring a woman whose dad returned from World War II suffering from what we would now call Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder and beat her up repeatedly. It was a poignant story and exactly the kind of coverage we should be getting when Remembrance Day rolls around.
As it is, I felt like, if I put on that poppy, I was saying yes to the military establishment that continues to treat young men and women as disposable objects, yes to the military values that promote machismo within the army and make the term gay soldier an oxymoron, yes to the assumption that war is a necessary strategy for resolving conflict.
And I just couldn't do it.
Nov 13, 2008 at 12:29 PM
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November 11th is called "Remembrance Day" -- a day of remembering -- not debating the vast machine that is war. There are appropriate times for that type of discussion, and it's not on a day that's been set aside to remember and honour the courage and sacrifice of numerous soldiers.
It's so bloody trendy nowadays to be a malcontent and question everything and complicate matters to the point of redundancy, and past it even. Ridiculous. You should be ashamed of yourself.
To Ms. Cole specifically, I will do my best to quickly illustrate how in the desire to create a provocative article, you've wandered completely around the point.
Remembrance Day is the day when we all should take time to not only thank the dwindling ranks of veterans for their efforts in WWI, WWII, Korean, Peacekeeping Missions and Afghanistan, but to also pay our respects to the horror of war. If the author is confused about how we recognize the destruction of war, then they need look no further than the faces of the veterans themselves. Watch those old men and woman when the Last Post or Piper's Lament is played and I defy you not to see the torment of war reflected in their eyes. Yes, the day is currently more about the soldiers than the wars themselves, but it's critical to understand that in 10 years, we won't have the soldiers anymore. These are our final chances to offer our thanks, listen to their stories and in doing so take advantage of the best chance we'll ever have to understand war, it's personal effects, social effects and long-lasting impact on both.
Furthermore, I would take specific exception with your statement that the ceremonies are more propaganda than proper salute. Firstly, one who's arguing against the substance of the entire day might be careful to judge what constitutes a "proper salute" and secondly, your entire article reads very much like the opinion of someone that's only watched these vital, somber memorials on television. Have you ever spoken with a veteran, male or female?
Before spitting on a vital part of our culture, the respect and remembrance of war and war veterans, you might take a moment and find out what exactly your against. This isn't merely an academic conversation.
As far as your statement that WW2 soldiers were largely conscripted, it should be pointed out that a lot of young Canadians men volunteered to go to war. Many of them had somewhat naive notions of the adventure they would encounter and others felt motivated to aid our allies Poland and Britain. As in WW1, when they returned home, many hoped it would be a war to end all wars, and campaigned to keep the memory of their comrades losses alive so that we Canadians would be cautious to avoid sending our troops into unnecessary conflicts.
I think it's important that you brought up the terrors inflicted on innocent civilians, from the horrific rapes of women to the mental illnesses that the soldiers acquire which fosters domestic violence, addictions and other social problems. However, this should not diminish the fact that occasions do rise when one nation initiates violence and aggression on another and in the case of WW2, we had to do something to help our allies in Europe since appeasing Hitler would not have resulted in long term peace or a free and civil society that Europe now enjoys.
Let us never forget the horrors of war, and the sacrifices made by soldiers everywhere. War is insane and yet there are times when there are no other options. I hope as I'm sure most people do that one day nations will not have the power to raise armies and wage wars. Surely there are devious and powerful elements in society who conspire to make and then profit from war. But that is not the fault of the soldiers who put their lives on the line to defend their country and allies.
I wish we were not at war now. I hope and pray that one day war will cease to exist. But even if that happens, we should never stop wearing our poppies. We should never forget how completely ugly war is or those soldiers and civilians who paid the ultimate sacrifice. So that we may see a day when wars are no longer fought on this planet. I hope. I remember.
What is this country without the souls who died to uphold our freedoms? Is it perfect? No. Is it necessary? It's beyond my ability to reason this question here and within these limited "comments" but the fact that warring has made and defined both humanity and the countries we owe citizenship too tells a lot more than any foolishly naive "war is bad" BS.
We're not just remembering to pay respect to them -- but to realize the horror and depravity and senseless loss that is inherent in ALL war. The author of this article glosses over that that point in exchange for her horribly misguided "beliefs."
but i remember and send my love and energy and compassion to all, ALL beings in the world that suffer and die, every single day, without exception.
and i do that regardless of whether or not i choose to wear a poppy on november 11.
Of which military are you speaking, in regards to the machismo and anti-gay?
Stop watching Hollywood films. The Canadian Forces are not the American military. I come by this knowledge first-hand.
And being that you so like to bash this "respect for the soldiers" vs the human cost of wars...who decides on when wars are fought? According to your empty-headed theory, it MUST be the soldiers.
Try foreign policy. Soldiers are simply an extension of this. At least in the Western world they are. The fact that you have such a disrespect for this day...and wrote about it...just disgusts me.
And it shows just how out of touch with the way of the world you are.
This is yet another positive reinforcement for my old WO's argument for a mandatory CF service for all able bodied young people. It DOES give you a greater understanding of the way of the world, one which you obviously lack. And I think he was on to something.
Since 1993, it has been legal to be openly gay in the Canadian military. During my own time of service I knew two openly gay men in uniform.
The white poppy has endured to this day. In Ottawa this year the group "White Poppy Collective" held an alternative Remembrance Day ceremony with the laying of a white poppy wreath. Said a spokesman, Ian Harvey, "If you are really looking out for the best for human beings, you want to vow to work for more peace and figure out ways to avoid more wars. That's how you honor veterans."
What she fails to understand is that we don't speak of the horrors of war on Remembrance Day because it is engrained deep in the psyche of all of the veterans gathered there on that day. The crowds that gather are well aware of what if must have taken for these men and women to overcome their deepest fears and move past the nightmares of combat on that scale. We gather in silence, not mentioning these horrors but instead paying tribute to the courage it took to overcome them. We remember the good that was done, the Christmas meals shared with enemy soldiers, the liberation of millions of Europeans, the end of war and the coming home of our loved ones. This is why we wear a poppy with pride and our chins held high.
The white ribbon has been ruined for me because of people who did nothing but talk about the montreal massacre.
What's important is understanding what the underlying symbol SHOULD mean.
As far as I can tell, the poppy is supposed to represent rememberence of what happened during the war so we don't hastily enter into another one. It's to remember those who fought, whether they wanted to or not, in horrific battles to protect the free country you live in today.
Whether you support war or not is irrelevant here. It's about the people who made the sacrifices...
The poppy itself isn't important
Of the 1.1 million Canadians who served in the armed forces in the Second World War, the vast majority volunteered for overseas duty. The use of conscripts for overseas service actually began late in 1944. Some 13,000 NRMA (National Resources Mobilization Act) men eventually left Canada, but only 2,463 reached units in the field before the end of the fighting. 69 died in battle.
I'm about as anti-war as you can get, however I see no point in punishing or disrespecting people like my grandfather who selflessly put his life on the line so monsters like Hitler and their ideology's would be defeated. Or what about the soldier who is in Afghanistan who joined the military because they couldn't afford a college education, who is only trying to make the world a better place and make a better life for themselves.
I'm guessing you are the type of person who enters a business and complains and berates the low level staff and hold them accountable for the decisions and policies of the people actually in charge. It's ignorant and a waste of everyone's time.
We should be holding our leaders accountable for unjust war, not the soldiers.
Those that are not willing to live by the sword, die on the sword.
It's not about you.
It's not about social BS.
It's about them and their sacrifice.
If you want to write anything in the future? I strongly suggest a simple "THANK YOU".
The rest of your blathering screed is Socialist Propaganda.
Those that are not willing to live by the sword, die on the sword.
Conquered.
Conquered.
Considering your sexual orientation Susan you'd do well to remember the very soldiers that died to allow you to live the way you want. Hitler would have gassed you. With sick commie views like yours perhaps that would not have been so bad.
BTW - Remembrance day is all about remembering the sacrifices made by our fine men and women, not about you. You are pathetic.
AND NEVER WRITE THIS CRAP AGAIN...NEXT TIME JUST SHUT UR WHINING MOUTH OH ME OH ME ..AND JUST BE THANK FULL.. AS A MATTER OF FACT..WE ALL DESERVE AN APOLOGY LETTER...AND I WANT IT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!
We're not in the United States, and this isn't the 1960s, either. Counter-culture is so passe. Not wearing a poppy is like burning your bra, not wearing a tie, not going to the prom, or some other empty symbolic gesture that I'm too young to remember. Get with the times, friend. There's power in conformity.
The poppy is a quiet symbol that many groups have appropriated, regardless of their politics. Why not just make Remembrance Day a reflection on the pity of war, and make the poppy your own?
I grant you that it is an odd phrase..."they fought and died for our freedom" It depends on how you look at it. Quite frankly, my kind would be relatively free even if Hitler controlled Europe (as he had no plans to dominate North America). It is arguably your people that Canadians fought for (whether they saw it that way or not).
I'm glad you're 'grateful' that Hitler was defeated. My grandfather thought that was pretty swell too.
I'm sorry to pull the 'my granddad' bit, but I think it is relevant, because he. He fought to liberate Holland from the Nazis, and suffered a near-deadly wound from a grenade that was thrown into his tank. He soon after became a gun-renouncing civilian who did not associate with Legion buddies and reminisce--possibly because he did not want to remember the horror he witnessed. He observed Remembrance Day, but I think he wished he could forget.
If nothing else, use the poppy as a symbol that you sympathize with those who have no choice but to remember the physical pain of war. Maybe the day should be about them, and not about your stale, painfully predictable views.
Oh, and by the way...I like how you managed to insert the gays in the military bit. I know how important that cause is for you. Again, a real fresh topic. But don't worry...there will be plenty of gays in the military soon...but if the unspeakable happens to them, would you not wear a poppy to honour them?
I cannot believe your editor let you publish this article. You have completely ignored what Rememberence Day represents.
Anyways, if you don't want to wear a poppy, don't. After all, you'd only be defiling it if you did.
I personally hope you are not the emerging anti-war face in society that goes so far as to reject the sacrifices of the veterans. It will truly be a sad day if your view becomes commonly held.
Wear a white poppy if you want to rage against the military machine.
shanda fur die goyim
FFS Susan... we knew you avoided facts you disagreed with, but do you completely avoid learning?
Canadian boys VOLUNTEERED, and chose which branch of the military in which they wanted to enlist.
"As it is, I felt like, if I put on that poppy, I was saying yes to the military establishment...(snip) yes to the assumption that war is a necessary strategy for resolving conflict."
They died so you can write your garbage.
Then how can you claim to be against rape? You must believe "if you lie still and don't resist it isn't rape".
Would love to read what twisted nonsense you come up with on Sharon Gregson.
As antidote to your obvious dementia, you might grab a beer at your local Legion to test your bent logic - it'll come correct before you've tipped the bartender.
As antidote to your obvious dementia, you might grab a beer at your local Legion to test your bent logic - it'll come correct before you've tipped the bartender.
As antidote to your obvious dementia, you might grab a beer at your local Legion to test your bent logic - it'll come correct before you've tipped the bartender.
As antidote to your obvious dementia, you might grab a beer at your local Legion to test your bent logic - it'll come correct before you've tipped the bartender.
It was during that minute in nineteen hundred and eighteen that millions upon millions of human beings stopped butchering one another. I have talked to old men who were on the battlefields during that minute. They have told me in one way or another that the sudden silence was the Voice of God. So we still have among us some men who can remember when God spoke clearly to mankind."
Kurt Vonnegut, 1973.
November 11 has become a day when people don't think about the military industrial complex or the barbaric wars that have been fought (needlessly, imperially, oppressively, unjustly) around the world since WW2.
I don't indiscriminately support all wars, or all war veterans. Even some of the people who died in the first and second World Wars were not heroes to be honoured, but war criminals whose crimes ought to be made public and condemned.
I do not wear a poppy, ever. If I did the proper research, I could tell you, name by name which veterans I would feel deserved my support and honour. But I have not done that research, and so do not indiscriminately support or condemn any veterans that have fought in wars throughout history.
Use your heads people. Propaganda is everywhere. Capitalists are just as capable of producing and distributing national lies as Socialists. And their objectives are truly just the same.
If you can stand there and not feel overwhelmed by emotion, and not reflect on what it means to be a free citizen of Canada and the world, then by all means never again wear a poppy for as long as you live.
If you can stand there and not feel overwhelmed by emotion, and not reflect on what it means to be a free citizen of Canada and the world, then by all means never again wear a poppy for as long as you live.
Remembrance Day came out of that. It neither condemns nor glorifies war, but insists that we never forget its costs. It acts as a warning to our political leaders that the blood of our soldiers must only be shed for reasons worthy of the price.
That's why I wear a poppy. I want our leaders to fully understand where my priorities lie.
But, I am, in all seriousness, absolutely appalled by your utter disregard for the sacrifices that people have made - willingly or not - to make sure that you have a comfortable life.
Canadians are absolutely not about promoting machismo or the war machine. If you want that mentality, head down South and live in America for a while.
Until then, feel free to leave your poppy on the table. That's what those men who you so ungratefully snub allowed you the right to do.
I am the youngest of his 6 children, he was a great father. We all gathered and watched him die in '88 - the doctor said the damage to his heart had been done decades ago -probably when he was in Europe when he had malaria and hepatitis in Italy. I was 22 when he died. He never regretted what he had to do in the war, even though it put him into a premature grave.
Your empty non-gesture is indicative of a discredited and bankrupt world view of moral relativism. Pacifism and empty, weak protests that the self indulgent, pampered toronto feminists revel in did not end Nazi rule, did not end slavery in the USA or the slave trade and it will not lead to the end of the oppression of women in Afganistan.
The true defenders of womens' rights and human rights have in the past and are today wearing the uniforms of the armies of the western free countries.
Some advice: grow up, open your eyes to the world outside of Canada (maybe even venture forth from the shire of the '416' area code)and you may begin to understand what Nov. 11th is about.
Remembrance Day came out of that. It neither condemns nor glorifies war, but insists that we never forget its costs. It acts as a warning to our political leaders that the blood of our soldiers must only be shed for reasons worthy of the price.
That's why I wear a poppy. I want our leaders to fully understand where my priorities lie.
The big question for the author is who will stand up to the madmen and crazies in our world. If not us who else?
If god forbid we end up with more Jewish thinkers like this fine example who are influencing our society we will likely end up as a society of Chamberlins.
ps. I'm part Jewish so the politically correct police can stop nashing their teeth and tearing their hair out at my references to Jewishness liberalism.
I'm sure it helps create controversy and buzz. Now talk amongst yourselves.
As for most of the posts below it, you should read more history, from more sources then think about how much 'freedom' was actually being protected.
I'm also curious to know how she feels about the countless Afghan women that endured rape and unbearable repression under the Taliban, and who are now attending schools and living with greater equality thanks to the sacrifices of our brave men and women in uniform.
I'm also curious to know how she feels about the countless Afghan women that endured rape and unbearable repression under the Taliban, and who are now attending schools and living with greater equality thanks to the sacrifices of our brave men and women in uniform.
As for fighting for our freedoms at home, they were not threatened at all in WW1. That was case of aggressive posturing that lead to a single incident starting a war. With the exception of WW2, there have been no threats to our freedom.
Overthrowing Haiti's government was a threat to THEIR freedom. So was assisting the US in Vietman an action against the citizens of that nation. We are often on the wrong side of the ideals we so freely celebrate.
As for fighting for our freedoms at home, they were not threatened at all in WW1. That was case of aggressive posturing that lead to a single incident starting a war. With the exception of WW2, there have been no threats to our freedom.
Overthrowing Haiti's government was a threat to THEIR freedom. So was assisting the US in Vietman an action against the citizens of that nation. We are often on the wrong side of the ideals we so freely celebrate.
Coles was one of the only writers, as I recall, who stood up for Karla Homolka, who conspired with Paul Bernardo not only to murder two young women, but also her own sister!
Which is to say, Coles, the ultra-feminist, was standing up for the rapist and killer of three girls (god knows what else Homolka and Bernardo got up to before they were finally apprended)!
This comes from a writer who, in turn, believes that censorsing so-called pornography will be a great leap in the liberation of womankind (see her `The Sex Crisis', from early 1990s).
Now, of course, she refuses to wear a poppy; well, Ms. Coles, it's called: `freedom'. I'm personally glad that she has the freedom not to wear a poppy; that's what veterans fought for.
Perhaps now you'll understand that `liberation' will not come from banning anything.
Which overthrow, when the U.S. installed Aristide? Yes, I'll agree that this denegrated Haitians' freedom.
As for Vietnam, yes, after the withdrawal of U.S. troops, the Vietnamese were `free' to be sent to `re-education' (ie. concentration) camps, and `free' to set out on the high seas, in order for many of them to starve and die (remember the `Boat People'?).
Which overthrow, when the U.S. installed Aristide? Yes, I'll agree that this denegrated Haitians' freedom.
As for Vietnam, yes, after the withdrawal of U.S. troops, the Vietnamese were `free' to be sent to `re-education' (ie. concentration) camps, and `free' to set out on the high seas, in order for many of them to starve and die (remember the `Boat People'?).
Which overthrow, when the U.S. installed Aristide? Yes, I'll agree that this denegrated Haitians' freedom.
As for Vietnam, yes, after the withdrawal of U.S. troops, the Vietnamese were `free' to be sent to `re-education' (ie. concentration) camps, and `free' to set out on the high seas, in order for many of them to starve and die (remember the `Boat People'?).
And have you not listened to the words of "In Flander's Fields"? How can your heart not brim with sadness at the horror of loss and death portrayed in McCrae's evocative lyrics? Every Remembrance day event I have been at has spoken to me not of exultation but of loss and thanks for sacrifice.
In general I am repulsed by your so-called defence above, in the first instance because it is based on your seemingly boundless ignorance of Canada's history (which, despite what you appear to think is not the same as that of the US). If you are going to take a public platform platform to try to defend your cruel and petty action as some sort of virtue, at least do it with some evidence.
Last, you clearly abhor the world's militaries. A principled but foolish position: wait for the abundance of miseries if you ever get your wish. The only thing standing between civilisation and horror is a few young men and women trained to apply violence in the defence of right.
And have you not listened to the words of "In Flander's Fields"? How can your heart not brim with sadness at the horror of loss and death portrayed in McCrae's evocative lyrics? Every Remembrance day event I have been at has spoken to me not of exultation but of loss and thanks for sacrifice.
In general I am repulsed by your so-called defence above, in the first instance because it is based on your seemingly boundless ignorance of Canada's history (which, despite what you appear to think is not the same as that of the US). If you are going to take a public platform platform to try to defend your cruel and petty action as some sort of virtue, at least do it with some evidence.
Last, you clearly abhor the world's militaries. A principled but foolish position: wait for the abundance of miseries if you ever get your wish. The only thing standing between civilisation and horror is a few young men and women trained to apply violence in the defence of right.
The poppy is for remembrance (you must have found the name "Remembrance Day" confusing)and it IS to remember the atrocities of war-and the reasons why we are free today.
Ms. Cole, you should be ashamed of yourself.
Doesn't matter what we think
The audience is clear though, Toronto is a bastion of them.
btw... at least NOW puts a disclaimer with their escort ads.
Doesn't matter what we think
The audience is clear though, Toronto is a bastion of them.
btw... at least NOW puts a disclaimer with their escort ads.
Fortunately no-one is going to police up your family and transport you to the gas chamber for having views that differ from what the government things is right! If you want to meet someone anti-war, talk to a soldier. Also, if you wanted to check any of the facts in your story (I am assuming you don't have anything like Google in your repertoire), I recommend a trip to your local Legion for a bit of first hand discussion with those who were there.
Hey, no-one volunteers to be a soldier for the glory. God only knows the misery that soldiers see and deal with every day during conflict. For a soldier close to me, it was seeing the baby nailed to the door in Bosnia or the goop from a leaky body bag draining down his arms as he hoisted them up from the mass grave into the truck. All these guys (and me) know, is that if no-one stands in the way of evil, evil prevails. The civilians didn't sign up for the death and misery, but the funny thing is that the soldier actually volunteered for this - because he or she thought it was the "right thing to do". Maybe go somewhere and get killed, maybe witness atrocities, but try to do some good in some forgotten hell hole somewhere.
Rest well at night knowing that there are others who are willing to stand up for what is right and that they will do this on your behalf whether you support them or not. Please don't bother coming to any Remembrance Day ceremonies - I don't need you to look on with your smugness while I comfort the mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters of those who didn't come back from the mission.
I've never felt so angry and disgusted from reading an article in any Canadian publication.
You should spend some time understanding why we honour soldiers in the first place. It's to remember that sending people to war results in real loss and hardship. It's to remind politicians and the public that war is horrible and should be a last resort.
I hate war but will always wear a poppy. We still need to thank those few who serve our country. Without their courage, our country would likely not exist.
The ceremonies I have attended celebrate freedom, they thank Veterans and recognize their efforts. They also teach children, who have been fortunate enough never to be faced with war in their country, the history of our country.
War is horrible and not all the men and women that served were wonderful people, the ceremonies don't claim they were perfect. The World Wars had dramatic effects on Canadian society. Many feel that our country forged it's identity during WW1, before then we were merely seen as a British colony. As for women, WW2 played a huge role in our entrance into the workplace.
The military had a booth at this year's gay pride festivities, so the military is making an effort in that regard also.
I don't need to attack Ms. Cole for her article but would prefer to urge her to attend more ceremonies to gain a more accurate view of what goes on. She is free to attend even if she chooses not to wear a poppy.
And you should spend less time being a self-brainwashed sheep and more being a thinking person who tries to understand the underlying context in which Ms. Cole has expressed her views. She understands war and social problems a hell of a lot more than you, a person who seems to be a spoonfed baby eagerly lapping up what his masters in the MSM tell him, especially the bullshit justifications about why we're in Afghanistan (and let's face it, this is Canada's Vietnam.) Turn off the brainwashing that you're getting and start to listen to the truth about what's happening-for starters, I recommend Gwynne Dyer's writings on the subject, archived here at NOW. Wake up from your sleep and stop being a sheep.
Not wearing a poppy is the least of this woman's problems.
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